• OK, I have a request to get the boundaries changed in my area. Submitted all census data and age breakdowns. Being told the other leagues have to agree?????!!!!! really????? Just looking for some help here.

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  • @Tony.

    What you are being told is correct. The easiest way to get boundaries changed is to get the league that currently has the boundary to agree to give it to the neighboring league that is going to pick up the area. Once that is done the Presidents of the league can approach the DA and let them know that they have both agreed to a boundary change. The league presidents and the DA should know the procedure from there.

    FYI, If I can ask why do you want the boundaries changed?

  • in our arean we had 4 leagues. Two leagues played at the same complex. About 8-10 years ago they combined with approval from LL, but the boundaries were not updated. Now, that on eleague has twice as many players/population as the remaining two leagues. As for the proceedure, WOW is all I can say!!! I don't expect the super league to give up anything. Why would they? Like asking your kid to willfully give up a candybar or favorite toy!!! LOL

  • Obviously the procedures are going to be tough. There has to be sufficient justification for the change, and everyone has to agree to it.

    If that one league is too large, it's possible that the Charter Committee in W-port will make them split things up into two divisions. But if HQ is fine with the way things are, then there's not much you can do about it.

  • @Manny, that is sad!!!! SWith the info I provided LL they should DIRECT a change!! I thought it was a benifit of the charter to be competing on a level playing field?

  • @Tony

    Having an unbalanced number of players is not really reason to change the boundaries. In the area my kids play in our league had 2 teams at the majors level and we had to interleague with other leagues this year. The neighboring league has probably 50 teams spread out amongst 5 divisions. I can not see a time when LL would step in and tell the leagues to balance themselves.

  • Just doesn't make sense. 4 leagues go to 3 leagues, but boundaries not redraw....hhhmmm smells fishy to me...sorry!!!

  • @Tony

    When the 4 leagues contracted down to 3 leagues how many teams were there? Are they spread out over multiple divisions?

    Do you know what caused them to merge? Were they loosing players?

  • not sure why they did merge, i think because they played at the same location. Whatever the reason, LL allowed it. Still, once the city was divided equally among four leagues. Now one league has %50 of the population. No matter how you slice it, someone is not doing the right thing!

  • @Tony -

    Im trying to figure out how this is not fair.

    Are you worried about not being competitive in the tourney? We are in one of the smaller leagues around here and are one of the more competitive teams in the tourney every year. The teams that make it out of our districts in our area are rarely from one of the bigger leagues.

    Or are you concerned that your league may fail due to the lack of kids? If they are unable to put together a league you can always request a waiver to play in one of the neighboring leagues.

  • not sure how to answer this, but why not try, right? Yes, I do not feel it is "fair" that one league gets half of a city and the other 2 leagues get to split the other half. Let me and you split a million bucks, you get 1/4, I get the rest!!! ;)

  • @Tony

    Sorry if I came off as negative. I'm actually interested in trying to help you find a solution to your problem. Knowing what may be at the root of your wish to change things may help. There are a lot of knowledgeable people on this board that could give you some advice.

    The unbalanced population problem is one faced by a good portion of the leagues in the US. I believe there are more smaller leagues then there are larger leagues. If you were to balance the leagues by populations you can run into a host of other issues. There are always complaints about changing boundaries due to school boundary issues or some people in rural areas complain that they have to drive 30 miles to get to their fields as the boundaries have to be so large to include enough kids to make up a league.

    The quagmire of issues that pop up when determining league boundaries are why LL leaves it up to the local leagues to determine their boundaries.

  • I totally understand what you are saying but I just go back to the fact we had 4 leagues with two of them combining to make one. Just doesn't seem right. There are league in our district LL will not even allow to combine there charters and they have smaller numbers per charter. So why the double standard???? Just frustrated!!!

  • We too had this happen, last season one of our leagues folded to many reason. Our town had 3 leagues and the smallest one joined up with the biggest one. Were some of us thought it should have been split up between the two. Still we compete very well with them but they do have a much larger player base.

    Tony, let me know if you get somewhere with this and how.

  • When Tony's league boundry was drawn it was done by population in the city were everyone got 1/4 of the city. His bounry's population believe it or not includes a cemetary these kids are not interested in the game sorry to say. 10 years ago the 2 league that merged took a section of our boudry and made it theres. The DA did it no discussion and all past maps were distroyed. So why cant we get that section back?

  • Tony, there are a variety of things that can go into this. I'll take my old hometown for example, where we had a real brew-ha-ha over boundaries for a long time. That has now gotten to the point that two of the four leagues will have left LL -- the second one this upcoming season.

    Four areas, all under 20,000 -- as that was the rule back then. (That isn't the case now.) One league has a whole lot more new housing, so we know they are about to go over 20K. Meanwhile, other side of town is a league with 17K population, but that includes multiple high-rise retirement complexes. So, the number of families and LL-eligible kids are not representative of the population. That league, wants to redraw some boundaries.

    But that league doesn't touch the boundaries of the league in question. So we can't just take from League A and give to League B. We have to involve, at minimum, three leagues. But to do that, we now have to get the third league to give up a neighborhood that two BOD members live in and has always been very supportive of the league. (Blue collar neighborhood; always the first to be at the field after a rainy night to get ready, etc., despite being the furthest drive away from the field.) Needless to say, no one ever agreed it on it and the deal fell apart. And believe me, I put a TON OF TIME into researching poulation shifts and all on behalf of the district.

    Mind you, too, this was all before II(d) got expanded. Back then, you have to have major league eligibility for II(d) rights. Today, anyone in the league gets II(d) rights.

    Eventually, it was the fourth league that bolted for Cal Ripken, being promised the glory of hosting a World Series and giving their league president a prominent national position. So the league with the older population got to take over the now unclaimed area and some were happy for a while. Apparently, that has worn off or something and now there will only be two LLs in a town that was a stronghold with nearly five (one boundary spilling out of town) at one time.

    To the original point, though, what you need to look at it is the number of kids playing somewhere -- not just general population numbers. And not just in one age group and not just in one season. It should be a blanket view of the last three years and the next five years, age-by-age. Are they keeping the t-ball & coach pitch kids, or do their numbers get skewed by that? Do they have nine major league teams and 30 minor, while you have four majors and 11 minors?

    Even IF all of that adds up, you need to know that with II(d) written as it is now, a boundary change doesn't necessarily mean every kid shifts to you immediately. Siblings get tenure, so league-established families have a choice to stay if they choose.

    There aren't any easy answers and you aren't alone in this problem.

  • There seems to be a lot of confusion around boundaries and the lack of public information, and as a result understand every concern. As a result, I am working on a database to publish all league boundaries which presently has over 800+ league boundaries. Please let me know if I can assist in helping your leagues identify their boundaries and get them published in a public venue.

  • how do you start a new thread here?

  • Go to the top of this page.

    Hit the "Back" button on the right.

    Now, hit the "New topic" button.


    That reminds me.

  • I see all of this was 28 months ago,curious how it panned out. I have a very similar frustration in my league. Our district seems to be very skewed. Some leagues with 6+ majors teams (for example) and ours has one (barely). We are constantly pulling kids up from lower levels to complete higher level teams. It seems that we cannot get enough kids to be very competitive. (We are in a boundary that in the past had many kids and over the years the population has changed to include less families.) There have been failed attempts at merging leagues over the years (too many adult politic issues to make it happen). I don't know why national little league does not review the league numbers on a continual basis. Changes are NOT going to happen at the local levels, big leagues want to stay strong and little ones don't want to give up their identity, fields, etc (fill in the blank with whatever the current issue may be). National little league has so many rules and regulations yet they seem to overlook these seemingly blatant problems that could easily be mended.

  • The final ruling....All the presidents whose boundaries touch have to sit down and agree to the redrawing of the lines. As of date two of the three leagues have agree to such a meeting. The third leagues president has changes every year since this has started so they are not really clued in to whats going on. Also, Little league as changed boundary rules so schools now can be a factor. We have no high schools in our league boundary so again we lose players.

  • Amy -- I too just saw this post and would love to know how it turned out. A few years back, a neighboring non LL decided to join Williamsport. We found out after it was all said and done that they took some of our boundary. It wasn't a huge deal because not many kids from that area played LL and just stayed close to home in their other league. What was disturbing about it was no one in our league had a clue it was happening. No communication from that league, Williamsport, or the District Administrator.

  • Or group has yet to finalize anything because the presidents keep changing before an agreement is reached.

  • Another Boundary issue I have involves how Districts handle what happens when a league folds. A couple of years ago we had a league fold, and it was a sizable league? Two different Little Leagues bordered the league that folded - when I asked where the kids in that league go to play I was told the other league; why - because their field was closer the the defunct league's field (even though some players would be closer to ours depending on where they lived). The effect was to more than double the boundary of the other little league. It just seems to me that there is no consistent policy of this type of stuff coming out of Williamsport.

  • This has been very helpful, thanks.

    I would like to explain my situation and ask for advise.

    I am the President of a Little League which has been chartered for over a decade. We have a large boundary map which is based because at the time there was no other Little Leagues in the area and we wanted to ensure everyone was covered that wanted to play. Our boundary covers over 50 sq miles. We would have families drive 90 minutes to play because we were the only league. In the last 2 years two other clubs have setup in our boundary. They have been recruiting our kids away from us and this is now affecting our registration. If we don't do something soon our club might not be around in two years. The DA has tried to get us to agree to reshaping our boundaries but we have always refused and stated that we are the only official Little League in the area. I am now thinking about going to the Charter Committee in Williamsport to object to these other clubs in our area. Just to you have an idea on numbers. We have ~12 teams from TBall - Seniors now. Three years ago we had 25+. One of the other leagues is similar in size and the other one is about triple the size of us. We kind of ignored or silently protested this the last two years because we wanted baseball to grow but now it's hurting our league. There is really just a lack of kids interested in baseball in our area. Also we have consistently beat the other clubs in tournaments so it's only becoming an issue now because we are losing kids. Also the kids which are going to these other clubs live closer to them then ours.

    Any help or comments would be appreciated.