Does Religion promote sexism?

  • Hello people! I am an atheist, and a feminist, and sometimes i like to see religion as a scam website from which you can get various viruses, viruses that spread at very high speed and get very hard to get rid of if you accept to access the website. Some of the viruses you catch from accessing the scam website (in this case religion) can sometimes be very harmful, hideous, and can sometimes also go unnoticed. The virus that I am referring to right now is Of course sexism towards women. This is a virus that spreads through religion, which gets me extremely angry. But the thing that saddens me the most about it is that some women even accept being oppressed knowingly and their reason for this is that the tend or seem to think that God thinks that it is for the betterment of the society etc. For example Islam, I am an ex Muslim who knows what its like to live in a society where women are oppressed for example, they are often literally told how to dress i.e to cover their bodies. I am definitely not saying that all Muslim women are oppressed for instance, I live in Canada, where a lot of Muslim women are open-minded but in countries that follow Islam strictly, women are oppressed and are victims of sexism in many ways. There are a lot of verses in the holy book of the Muslims that are clearly unfair towards women and some of those verses are written in a way which suggests that men have some sort of authority over women which really pisses me off!

    I would love to hear your views on this!



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  • My dear brother,

    I am a woman and a muslim and I can assure you that Islam does not supress any woman. I dont know why you think so.I am also a feminist and I have no problem in being a Muslim, instead I believe that Islam has given me freedom and every right to live my life in the way I want. Dear brother you are confusing two different things Religion and Culture. Eastern society is no wonder male dominated but its a culture not a religion. If a man beats his wife thats not fair even in the eye of Allah.

    Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said:

    The most perfect believers are the best in conduct and best of you are those who are best to their wives. [Ibn-Hanbal, No. 7396]

    The Quran states:

    "...But consort with them in kindness, for if you hate them it may happen that you hate a thing wherein God has placed much good." [Noble Quran 4:19]

    The Quran states;;

    "When you divorce women, and they reach their prescribed term, then retain them in kindness and retain them not for injury so that you transgress (the limits)..." [Noble Quran 2:231] [See also Quran 2:229 and 33:49]

    As a mother a famous saying of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is: "Paradise is at the feet of mothers." [In An-Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad]

    According to Islamic Law, woman's right to her money, real estate, or other properties is fully acknowledged. This right undergoes no change whether she is single or married. She retains her full rights to buy, sell, mortgage or lease any or all her properties. It is nowhere suggested in the Law that a woman is a minor simply because she is a female. It is also noteworthy that such right applies to her properties before marriage as well as to whatever she acquires thereafter.

    With regard to the woman's right to seek employment it should be stated first that Islam regards her role in society as a mother and a wife as the most sacred and essential one. However, there is no decree in Islam which forbids woman from seeking employment whenever there is a necessity for it, especially in positions which fit her nature and in which society needs her most.

    In addition, Islam restored to woman the right of inheritance,

    "Unto men (of the family) belongs a share of that which Parents and near kindred leave, and unto women a share of that which parents and near kindred leave, whether it be a little or much - a

    determinate share." [Noble Quran 4:7]

    Woman, on the other hand, is far more secure financially and is far less burdened with any claims on her possessions. Her possessions before marriage do not transfer to her husband and she even keeps her maiden name. She has no obligation to spend on her family out of such properties or out of her income after marriage. She is entitled to the "Mahr" which she takes from her husband at the time of marriage. If she is divorced, she may get an alimony from her ex-husband.

    Any fair investigation of the teachings of Islam into the history of the Islamic civilization will surely find a clear evidence of woman's equality with man in what we call today "political rights".

    This includes the right of election as well as the nomination to political offices. It also includes woman's right to participate in public affairs. Both in the Quran and in Islamic history we find examples of women who participated in serious discussions and argued even with the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) himself (see the Noble Quran 58:14 and 60:10-12).

    During the Caliphate of 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, a woman argued with him in the mosque, proved her point, and caused him to declare in the presence of people: "A woman is right and 'Umar is wrong."

    As far as treatment of daughters is concerned, Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "Anyone who has two daughters, and did not bury them, did not insult them and brought them up properly, he and I will be like this," holding his two fingers close together. Another version adds, "And also did not favor his sons over daughters." One time the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was seated. A companion was sitting with him. The companion's son came. He kissed his son and put him on his lap. Then his daughter came, and he just sat her by his side. The Prophet told the man, "You did not do Justice," meaning he should have treated the daughter equally, kissed her and put her in his lap also. Indeed, whenever the Prophet's daughter Fatimah came to him, in front of everyone, he stood up, kissed her and let her sit in his favorite place where he'd been sitting.

    The problems that you see are not the problems of Islam. They are problems of a lack of commitment, lack of application, or misapplication of Islamic teachings by Muslims themselves.

    There's no question that the Western media has played an important role in perpetuating these misconceptions. But in fairness, we should not blame the media alone. Western culture, in writings about other religions, in particular Islam, have distorted images. From books, novels, even in the academic circle, and sermons from the pulpit in places of worship, these kinds of prejudices are perpetuated.

    I really feel sad that you have left this beautiful religion just because of few misconceptions. Please try to get your answers from a reliable person who has religious knowledge instead of these misguided people. The life in this world is too short and you will die one day and will be accountable for your beliefs so please please go back to Islam.Atleast give one more try .

    May Allah guide You

    your sister

  • dear Sister,

    With all due respect, you are wrong as in the Quran, Allah clearly says that men have dominion over women, and he gives men the permission to even beat there wives just for showing arrogance. And as far as the hadith is concerned, Prophet Muhammad Says that the punishment for women who commit adultery is death by stoning.

    http://quran.com/4/34,Bukhari (72:715) Qur'an (38:44). If this does not ring a bell, i don't know what will. I also advise you to identify the negative things in The Quran and hadith, instead of just pointing out all the nice things and ignoring the ones which are morally unacceptable!

  • DO YOU HAVE KIDS

  • That is irrelevant

  • WHAT WILL YOU DO IF THEY DO WRONG ,DONT YOU PUNISH THEM . ADULTERY IS NOT A SMALL THING ,IT CAN DESTROY FAMILIES. THEIR TRUST , THEIR RELATIONSHIPS . HOW CAN ALLAH ALLOW PEOPLE TO DO THIS .IF YOU PUNISH ONE PERSON WHO IS DOING WRONG OTHER PEOPLE WILL LEARN THERE LESSON AND WILL STAY AWAY FROM THIS. YOU CAN SEE SO MANY BROKEN HOMES IN WEST ,SO MANY MARITAL PROPLEMS JUST BECAUSE THEY DONT BELIEVE THAT ITS WRONG.AND IF YOU BELIEVE IN WOMEN RIGHT IT ACTUALLY PROTECT WOMEN. IF MY HUSBAND IS OUT AT LEAST I HAVE NO DOUBTS IN MY MIND AS I KNOW THAT BEING A MUSLIM HE WILL RESTRAIN HIMSELF FROM DOING WRONG .

    AND THE AYAT ABOUT BEATING YOUR WIFE WAS NOT BECAUSE OF ARROGANCE BUT IF SHE IS DIS-OBEDIENT AND IS REBELLIOUS AND THERE ARE 3 STAGES TO CORRECT HER BEHAVIOUR,

    FIRST STAGE IS TO CONVINCE THEM,

    THEN LEAVE THEM APART IN BEDS,

    AND EVEN IF IT DIDNT WORK THEN YOU CAN BEAT THEM.

    WHEN THE EARLIER STAGE IS SUFFICIENT IT IS NOT ALLOWED TO RESORT TO THE NEXT ONE,

    PARTICULARLY THE HOLY PROPHET HAS GIVEN CLEAR DIRECTIONS ABOUT THE THIRD STAGE BEATING SHOULD BE THE LAST RESORT IN A VERY EXTREME SITUATION. IN A NUMBER OF HADITH HE HAS CONDEMNED THE PRACTICE OF BEATING WOMEN. HE IS REPORTED TO HAVE SAID,"GOOD PEOPLE AMONG YOU WOULD NEVER BEAT WOMEN"(RUH-UL-MAANI,FROM BAIHAQI AND IBN SAD)NO PROPHET HAS EVER BEATEN A WOMEN. EVEN IN AN EXTREME SITUATION WHERE THE HOLY QURAN HAS ALLOWED BEATING, THE PROPHET HAS IN ITS EXPLANATION, PROHIBITED SLAPPING ON THE FACE OR ANY ACT THAT MAY LEAVE MARK ON THE BODY.

    HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND MAY ALLAH GUIDE YOU TO THE RIGHT PATH

  • HASAN IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTION YOU CAN DISCUSS I WILL BE VERY HAPPY TO ANSWER YOU BUT PLEASE TRY TO READ QURAN WITH TAFSEER AND TRY YOUR BEST TO KNOW THE TRUTH .BECAUSE LOSING YOUR FAITH IS A BIG THING .MAY BE YOU ARE TOO YOUNG TO UNDERSTAND THIS ,PLEASE DONT DO THAT IN YOUR INNOCENCE.

    I WILL PRAY FOR YOU .

  • "AND THE AYAT ABOUT BEATING YOUR WIFE WAS NOT BECAUSE OF ARROGANCE BUT IF SHE IS DIS-OBEDIENT AND IS REBELLIOUS AND THERE ARE 3 STAGES TO CORRECT HER BEHAVIOUR,

    FIRST STAGE IS TO CONVINCE THEM,

    THEN LEAVE THEM APART IN BEDS,

    AND EVEN IF IT DIDNT WORK THEN YOU CAN BEAT THEM.

    WHEN THE EARLIER STAGE IS SUFFICIENT IT IS NOT ALLOWED TO RESORT TO THE NEXT ONE,

    PARTICULARLY THE HOLY PROPHET HAS GIVEN CLEAR DIRECTIONS ABOUT THE THIRD STAGE BEATING SHOULD BE THE LAST RESORT IN A VERY EXTREME SITUATION."

    Wow, I just don't know what to say.... This here says everything that needs to be said about Islam and it's treatment of women. You talk about this as if it explains away 'beating your wife;' beating your wife is clearly abuse and any book or writing that condones or attempts to justify that behaviour is perpetuating that abuse; plain and simple.

  • OK I DONT WANT TO ARGUE WITH YOU LADY AS YOU DO NOT KNOW ABOUT ISLAM SO PLEASE KEEP YOUR IDEAS TO YOURSELF. DID YOU READ EVER THING I WROTE, EVERY THING IN FAVOUR OF WOMEN. THERE IS NO OTHER RELIGION THAT GIVE SO MUCH RESPECT TO A WOMAN THAN ISLAM.

    AND WHAT ABOUT YOUR SOCIETY ,WHAT RESPECT DO U GET ,YOU WORK ALL DAY LIKE AN ASS, MOSTLY MEN STAY AT HOME DOING NOTHING BUT BABY SITTING . YOU ARE BEATEN UP BY YOUR HUSBANDS . THERE ARE SO MANY SHELTER HOMES IN CANADA AND AMERICA. YOUR HUSBANDS CHEAT YOU BEHIND YOUR BACK,

    THE MOCK YOU AND MAKE FUN OF YOU WHEN YOU GET OVER WEIGHT . YOUR SOCIETY IS SO MATERIALISTIC THAT YOU SPENT MONEY ON BOTOX, LIPO AND FILLERS. WOMAN IS CONSIDERED AS SEX OBJECT. YOU SEE NUDEITY EVERY WHERE, IN MAGAZINES, MALLS,IN PUBLIC PLACES . WOMEN ARE HARASSED IN WORK PLACES. IS THIS THE RESPECT YOU ARE GETTING FROM YOUR SOCIETY.

    WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT...........

    .



    Updated 34 months ago by the author.
  • @Shamila

    I will share my opinions and ideas here as I see fit, and frankly you are not god of this discussion and have no right to try to tell me to keep my ideas to myself. You don't want to argue with me fine, but I am free to articulate how I perceive what is being said.

    A) Beating your partner is physical abuse

    B) It is physical abuse no matter the reason

    C) If a piece of writing tries to justify that act it is perpetuating that abuse

    What are the reasons for beating a partner? what is a extreme situation for a husband? is it extreme when his wife refuses to listen? when she won't obey? who knows. I am a human being first and a woman second, I am my own person and didn't appear on this planet to be obedient to anyone else.

  • SORRY ABOUT THAT , I AM A HUMAN AND A WOMAN BUT THE DIFFERENCE HERE IS I AM OBEDIENT TO MY GOD ,WHY BECAUSE HE HAS CREATED ME, GIVE ME A BEAUTIFUL LIFE, WONDERFUL FAMILY, FOOD TO EAT, KIDS TO ENJOY , GOOD HEALTH AND MOSTLY HE HAS GIVEN ME AN AWARENESS ABOUT HIM. IF I AM NOT THANKFUL IT MEANS I AM EXTREMELY UNGRATEFUL .SIMILARLY IF I AM LIVING WITH MY HUSBAND WHO IS PROVIDING ME WITH EVERYTHING I NEED , GIVES ME LOVE, SHELTER, RESPECT ,FREEDOM, MONEY AND IS SINCERE , SO IF I AM OBEDIENT TO HIM DOESNT MEANS THAT I AM DEGRADING MYSELF.

    MARRIAGE RELATIONSHIP DEPENDS ON COMPROMISES , MUTUAL TRUST AND LOVE AND ALL THIS NEED SOME SACRIFICES AND IF YOU THINK YOU ARE NOT OBEDIENT TO ANYONE AND YOU WILL DO WHAT EVER YOU WANT THAN THIS RELATIONSHIP OR EVEN ANY OTHER RELATION WILL NOT LAST LONG.

    .

  • You can rely on someone without being obedient to them; there is a real difference. Saying I am not obedient to anyone is not saying I do not trust or rely on others, you are confusing the two.

    A) To be obedient is to have do what someone demands you to do.

    B)To rely on someone is to work with them in a mutual partnership, meaning you can choose to do or not do what someone asks you to do.

    And where there is violence or even unspoken threats of violence and physical abuse, choice, partnership and trust are essentially broken and non existent.

    Can you see the difference? the difference lays in the power imbalance. If one side has all the power and the other has none the side lacking power can only be obedient no matter what. Sooner or later the side with all the power will use that power to make their lives easier at the cost of the other. And that is abuse, which is why I choose not to place myself into a situation where I subjugate myself to someone else's will.

  • Dear Shamila Hameed

    With all due respect, you clearly are scientifically illiterate, and you seriously need to look at your morals and ethics. I do not say that to offend you, but i say that to inform you of you're naivety.

  • PLEASE READ MY PREVIOUS STATEMENTS CAREFULLY. IN ISLAM THERE IS NO DISBALANCE ,ITS A BALANCED RELATIONSHIP . AS MAN IS THE PROVIDER IN THE HOUSE HE IS GIVEN RESPECT AND A GOOD WIFE IS ONE WHO RESPECTS HER HUSBANDS WISHES. MAN IS ACCOUNTABLE IN FRONT OF GOD FOR TREATING HIS WIFE IN A GOOD WAY, PROVIDING HER WHAT EVER SHE NEEDS, RESPECT HER. IF HE IS GOING TO BEAT HIS WIFE FOR NO REASON OR FOR SMALL ISSUE HE WILL BE PUNISHED ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT. IN ISLAM WOMAN IS ONLY RESPONSABLE TO FULFIL HER ROLE AS A WIFE AND A MOTHER SHE IS EVEN NOT RESPONSABLE TO COOK FOOD AND TO CLEAN THE HOUSE AND TO WASH THE DISHES, IF SHE DOES SO HER HUSBAND SHOULD BE GRATEFUL TO HER BUT ITS NOT HER DUTY TO DO THAT OR TO GO OUT TO EARN MONEY, ITS HUSBANDS JOB TO PROVIDE HER AND KIDS FOOD AND TO PROVIDE HOME FOR THEM. THIS AYAT THAT YOU ARE ARGUING IS AN EXTREME SITUATION WHICH DOES NOT HAPPEN IN EVERYDAY LIFE BUT YOU CANNOT DENY THE FACT THAT SOME WOMEN CAN BE VERY DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH SO THE SOLUTION OF THIS SITUATION, IF IT HAPPENS IS GIVEN .

  • My dear I am a doctor and who are you , A Scientist ?

    I asked you to discuss things not to show your arrogance

  • If you have learned few things about science that doesnt mean you start disbelieving your God.

    Science is based on theories that changes with time. Religion is one that there is no God but Allah. You cannot prove everthing with science.

  • Darwin Taught Male Superiority

    by Dr. Jerry Bergman on January 1, 2007; last featured July 28, 2008

    According to Darwinian theory, women were less evolved than men, and because of their smaller brains, they were “eternally primitive,” childlike, less spiritual, more materialistic, and “a real danger to contemporary civilization.”

    According to Charles Darwin, the central mechanism of evolution is survival of the fittest. In this concept, inferior animals are more likely to become extinct while the superior ones are more likely to thrive.1 The racism that this idea has produced has now been both well-documented and widely publicized.2 Less widely known is the fact that many evolutionists, including Darwin, taught that women were both biologically and intellectually inferior to men.

    Reasons for Inferiority

    According to Darwinian theory, women were less evolved than men, and because of their smaller brains, they were “eternally primitive,” childlike, less spiritual, more materialistic, and “a real danger to contemporary civilization.”3 The supposed intelligence gap that many leading Darwinists believed existed between human males and females was so large that some leading Darwinists classified them as two distinct species—males as Homo frontalis and females as Homo parietalis.4 The differences were so great that Darwin was amazed “such different beings belong to the same species.”5

    Reasons for male superiority included the conclusion that war and hunting pruned the weaker men, allowing only the most fit to return home and reproduce. Women, in contrast, were not subject to these selection pressures but were protected by men, allowing the weak to survive.

    Darwin’s Writings and Opinions Regarding Women

    Many Darwin biographers, including Peter Brent and Evelleen Richards, conclude that Darwin had a low opinion of women. Brent concluded, “It would be hard to conceive of a more self-indulgent, almost contemptuous, view of the subservience of women to men” than Darwin’s attitude.7 Richards writes that Darwin had “clearly defined opinions on women’s intellectual inferiority and her subservient status.

    Darwin taught that women were both biologically and intellectually inferior to men.

    Darwin’s writings and those of his disciples reveal that the belief of women inferiority was central to early evolutionary theory. In The Descent of Man Darwin argued that adult females of most species resembled the young of both sexes and that “males are more evolutionarily advanced than females.

    Darwin’s Influence

    This degrading view of women rapidly spread to Darwin’s scientific and academic contemporaries during the late Victorian period10 and heavily influenced many theorists who had a major role in shaping the following generation—from Sigmund Freud to Havelock Ellis.11 Evelleen Richards concludes that Darwin’s views about women logically followed from his theory, “thereby nourishing several generations of scientific sexism.”12 Importantly, as a result of Darwin’s ideas, scientists were inspired to use biology to build support for the position that women were “manifestly inferior and irreversibly subordinate” to men, thus impacting all of society.13 Darwinian thinking supported the idea that men were superior to women, which was already within many cultures. Darwin simply gave credence to this unbiblical teaching.

  • If we're talking about the _THIS_ Dr. Bergman ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Bergman ), he's a creationist in the first place.

    What you are quoting is a fairly standard anti-evolution screed which is neither peer reviewed nor credible.

    Have you actually read Darwin's "The Origin of Species"? Bergman is grossly misrepresenting what Darwin originally wrote, and he is misconstruing the research done since.

    As an aside, if you're going reference this kind of crap, you might as well go back to phrenology and the oh-so-enlightened work of Dr. Mengele.

  • Still doesn't address the perpetuating of physical abuse of husbands towards their wives. All I have heard is a continued attempt to justify what are the rules around beating a partner, while you refuse to address that physical abuse of a partner is physical abuse of a partner no matter the reason. And using terms like "difficult to handle" is just victim blaming. I could justify violence towards anyone with that reason, and the question then becomes who said that a woman needs to be "handled?"



    Updated 34 months ago by the author.
  • when she commits adultery and have sexual relationship with others despite she has a husband and a family then but you wont understand it because for you its completely ok that what u learned from your society ,its not your fault.

  • @Shamila:

    It's funny how it's only the woman who seems to pay the price for that, meanwhile the man is not held to the same standards...

    Men seem to be able to sleep around at will and are not held accountable for it in the context of that same marriage. I think the phrase you're seeking is "double standard".

  • You yourself look like a hermaphrodite so pls dont talk about things u are not related too.

  • @Shamila:

    So what _I_ look like is germane to this discussion? Wow ... I've never seen someone descend into ad hominem attack so quickly.

  • @Shamila

    Personal attacks of that nature are not welcome on this forum, do it again and I will bring it to the attention of the moderators and seek to get you banned.



    Updated 34 months ago by the author.
  • Shamila, seriously?

    First of: Which god?

    And why should any of us believe in it?

    Then, even if he existed and had created us, why would we owe him anything for that?

    Did I ask to be created?

    You make claims, that have been disproven!

    You claim bodily punishment is a thing that is acceptable!

    If I would even try to beat my wife for whatever reason, she divorce and I would deserve it.

    If I would beat my children, my wife would leave me, and I would deserve it!

    Abd what is it about the all caps all the time?'

    It is called shouting and does not at all help your statements!

    You can nt get around that the qu'ran is not treating women as equal. First they are the "responsibility" of the Father, and when they are married of they are the responsibility of the husband.

    That is the way the qu'ran teaches.

    If you do not want to life a self determined life, that is up to you, but to make that claim for millions of women that suffer under it, is quite arrogant!

  • Of course,every single religion on planet is sexist. I had to leave my religion and plan to travel million of miles to Europe to find love because i knew Muslims aren't supposed to love or respect women. It saddens me that people still defend religions and sexism sanctioned by them. I would rather die than marry a Muslim or even anyone religious. One of the most cruel thing to do would be to give birth to a daughter in a religious household. Her life will be ruined.