Does Islam tolerate other beliefs?

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  • @Dennis, there are thousands of Muslims marching for the sole purpose of requesting the death penalty for atheist bloggers. Freedom of speech is not big among many Muslim people.

  • The title should read (regarding atheists)... Does Islam tolerate other lack of beliefs?

  • Quran, 60:8 :Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

    Quran, 16:125 : "Call to the way of your Lord (to Islam) using wisdom and kind advice, and debate with people using the best of arguments. Truly your Lord is more knowing of who is misguided and is more knowing of who is guided."

    What Allah dictates and what "muslims" practice are two completely different things. Today's Muslims don't even understand their religion. May be one day the West will discover the truth about Islam and teach "Muslims" More about their own religion.

    Any one who wants to know about what Islam preaches has to read the Qur'an, Allah's real Way.

  • So Mohammad....what happens to a Muslim is he/she decides to abandon Islam and become an atheist?

  • No, a Muslim will never do that. A Muslim knows that Islam is right , so he just adjusts his wrong behaviour to real Islam. Anybody who does that , finds real happiness, even especially newly converted people from the West. Ask Muhamed Ali, the boxer. Ask Yussef Islam, former singer Cat Stevens...

    A muslim has no problem. He already knows the truth. All he's got to do is repent. And Allah has kept repentence door wide open until an individual dies. Only then regret will be useless. This is the biggest test the human being confronts. You either win eternal happiness, or lose it and face eternal misery.

    Besides, atheism offers nothing to a muslim. It is just an escape from the biggest reality: this world has a Creator. I agree that it is very difficult for you - Westeners _ to discover Him because you were raised as Christians, who follow a twisted religion which is full of infiltrations and contradictions. Islam is the only religion in the world which is logical and does not contradict the human nature.

    Among Muhammad's prophecies there is one which says that Islam will prevail just before this world ends, and that people of the world will finally discover its truth and will accept it. Mind you, we have started seeing this with our own eyes. Islam is spreading quickly in Europe and America because people read about it and find it absolutely convincing.

    In the midst of the world's monetary crisis emerges the Islamic financial system as the only solution to it. Communism has failed, and greedy Capitalism is falling right before our eyes. The Islamic banks are gaining more trust and they are the world's hope today simply because they are followin Allah's model which is very beneficial to humanity because our laws are kind and in favour of man.

  • Ken, he will be given religious education.

  • If I wanted to be preached at, I would go to church. Mo, you just made a whole bunch of unsubstantiated assertions with zero evidence to back it up...as usual.

  • And when have YOU backed up your naive suppositions with any evidence at all, Jason?

  • The only claims I ever make are backed up with established science. I do not hold beliefs that are not based on fact, and if I ever do, I change them to suit what reality says. Either you haven't been paying attention to what I've said, or you view "facts" differently than the scientific community.

  • Sheeza....'religious education' sounds ominously like the 'socialization' camps in Cambodia. If a person wants to leave Islam, the person should be permitted to leave Islam. That is the nature of tolerance

  • Sheeza,

    Please elaborate on your answer. If someone chooses to leave Islam and become an atheist do they have the right to do so without any resistance? When you say "given religious education", do you mean forced or pressured?

    Mohammad,

    Give up, you haven't made any points only made yourself look ignorant and brainwashed. You've spent weeks on here displaying you have little to no understanding of science or rational thinking. If you came here to debate I recommend taking a entry level debate course so you can understand the basic concept behind making a point and supporting it.

  • For the two Muslims on this string, I would be interested to see the verses from the Qur'an which speak to the idea of leaving Islam.

  • //In the midst of the world's monetary crisis emerges the Islamic financial system as the only solution to it. Communism has failed, and greedy Capitalism is falling right before our eyes. \\

    Modern Islamic banking and lending is based on interest as the quoted page below demonstrates. In fact, the world's biggest derivatives trader, Goldman-Sachs, is Sharia compliant. Observable fact!

    In the muslim world, you can fool all the people all the time, apparently.

    http://www.islamic-bank.com/personal-banking/finance-products/home-purchase-plan/

    (structure of a mortgage)

    //Fixed product

    Rental rate - 4.19% (Fixed until 31 March 2015)

    Finance to value up to 80%

    Administration fee of £399

    Standard product

    Rental rate - 4.49% (BBR + a margin of 3.99%)

    Finance to value up to 80%

    Administration fee of £399\\

  • Zack

    Your close mindedness shows you that contrary opinions are always wrong and the people who hold opposite views are all ignorant and brainwashed people.You are not entitled in giving lessons in how to bebate. If you have nothing interesting to discuss, just don't do it.

  • FEATURES OF ISLAMIC ECONOMY

    1. Dealing in interest, liquor, pork, gambling or pornography are prohibited.

    2. Islam forbids all forms of economic activity which it deems morally or socially harmful.

    3. Individuals must spend their wealth judiciously and not hoard it, keep it idle or squander it.

    4. Muslims have a duty to contribute a percentage of their wealth to deprived and poor sections of Muslim society.

    Get more information about what you don't know about. We Muslims don't fool anyboody . We are presenting you with knowledge which you have not known before. Your capitalist system is sinking. All your economy professors cannot save it now. You have no answers but to look at other alternatives. Islam offers all the answers because it is not man made. Allah has provided us with all the answers in the Quran, His book and message to all humanity in all times. You only have to consider it.

    The West has to stop its arrogance for good, and see its mistakes and flaws which are only drowning the world into more misery. Yesterday I saw a documentary about our neighbours the Spaniards, who started collecting food from garbage bins! Their banks have turned into monsters and they just kick people oout of their homes. Tragically, the number of suiciders has risen considerably.

    Islamic econoomy is based on MORALS. It is kind to human beings and looks for their interests primarily. On the contrary, capitalism is based on greed and exploitation. It is inhuman. When are you going to understand that Islam came as a mercy to human beings.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8025410.stm

  • http://rt.com/news/bangladesh-protest-muslim-blogger-431/

    After reading this article I can see why Mo would assert that this religion is one of peace. Ah yes, I can feel the peace and tranquility oozing through while thousands of Muslims call for the death penalty for the heinous crime of atheism.

  • It seems to me that Jason hasn't even read the article he mentioned above. It is clear that the article's conclusion states, "The current punishment for defaming religion online in Bangladesh carries a jail sentence of up to 10 years in jail." So who's calling for death?

    Besides, the crime is not atheism, as Jason pretended. The crime is defaming Islam in a Muslim country. If one is not able to defend one's own religion in one's own territory, then one must be stupid. The freedom that atheists want is not freedom of thought. They want to mock, to ridicule, to insult, to belittle, to degrade...After all if an atheist has no morals what can we expect from him? Thanks God many atheists are respectable people who discuss and debate and are not interested in hurting people.

    I wonder why some think that if a Muslim gets angry because he was deeply hurt, he must be a terrorirst. Don't we have the right to express anger when we are hurt in our own homes? Or is it because we are Muslims , we have to be stupid and let the others attack us and mock us and just draw some stupid smiles on our faces to show that we are tolerant.

    If any one wants to be atheist, or whatever, he is free to do so. However, he has to show respect to others. I have seen on Facebook Arab atheist sites who show pictures of our holy book under the feet of a woman. I wonder if you would permit someone to do something alike to you, and stay calm. You would be stupid, wouldn't you? ( And don't tell me we have no holy book. I know that, but you must have feelings)

    Stop hurting us, please!

  • LOL @ Mo

    Your morals are so screwed up because of your religion, I can't even have a discussion with you. Firstly, 100 thousand people were chanting their demand to put to death the atheist bloggers. Secondly, I don't care if they called your religion the biggest scam in history, how can you punish someone for that?

    Get a moral compass, then come back to discuss this with us.

  • Mohammad,

    I always welcome opposing views, but I expect people to be able to back them up with empirical evidence and rational argument, not just "I'm right and your wrong because I have faith".

    As to Jason's post, I too have read this article and followed the story. Are you stating you think ten years in prison for expressing freedom of speech is just?

  • Devout theists do not feel that rational arguments or reasonable liberties apply to their beliefs. From a rational, non-theist perspective, the behaviour of Islam toward those who do not agree with Islam is criminal. Countries which adopt Islam as the centre of their moral compass are primitive and criminal.

  • //Islamic econoomy is based on MORALS. It is kind to human beings and looks for their interests primarily. On the contrary, capitalism is based on greed and exploitation. It is inhuman. When are you going to understand that Islam came as a mercy to human beings.\\

    Islamic economics is based on the same morality as other economies as my reference earlier showed. From here, it looks like the people of Islamic countries suffer greatly while rulers become fabulously wealthy without earning any of it.

    Capitalism has worked best as a means for providing benefits to a population, rich and poor, by being based on freedom.

  • // Dealing in interest, liquor, pork, gambling or pornography are prohibited.\\

    Why is pork put with the others? There is no scientific reason to not eat pork.

    I guess this is another instance demonstrating that holy books were based on contemporary knowledge rather than fact.

    Similarly, the laws against interest are probably based on the damage that unregulated lenders could do to a community. Factually, interest is a tool that regulates the flow of money in an economy and serves a valuable purpose but a god would never figure that out, I guess. Pornography is almost impossible to define because sexual preferences vary widely as science has discovered.

  • @Dennis: While I agree in general with your point about capitalism having worked best, I think I would qualify it with a "to date" clause.

    Capitalism as expressed in the US and other countries has gotten out of balance in recent years, with a growing concentration of wealth in the hands of a very small number of hands. The gap between rich and poor in the US and Canada in particular has been growing rapidly, resulting in a significantly more polarized society. I'm not saying that this cannot be corrected, but rather that there is a legitimate criticism of capitalism that arises when it gets too far out of balance.

    @Mohammad: Frankly, any economic structure is subject to exploitation by those who are able to concentrate power in their hands. I think it would be silly to assume that because a given system is based on some arbitrary moral structure that it cannot get knocked out of kilter.

    Fundamentally, there is no such thing as "economic morals" - money has no morality associated with it. Individuals may have morals, society may have moral norms, but money has neither of those attributes. Since an economy is based on the exchange of money for goods and services, it is no enormous leap to understand that tying money to morality is more or less asking for things to get out of whack.

    In the Christian world, that experiment was called tithing - all it did was create an enormously wealthy and corrupt church. I suspect that in the muslim world it applying "Islamic morals" to economic transactions will ultimately result in an astonishing amount of money and power landing in the hands of a few who will be proportionately powerful and corrupt. One might well imagine based on news articles that the Saud family, the ruling clergy in Iran and others aren't exactly using their wealth and power entirely morally but that their tame clergy are interpreting things in their favour.

  • No

  • Why is pork put with the others? There is no scientific reason to not eat pork.

    Lol. There is no scientific evidence for anything you are against. Is this how your mentality functions. When you don't know, you it doesn't exist. Isn't this called ignorance at its best. Well, the book you think belongs to the bronze age was able to detect pork is unheakthy. The question is how was the Quran able to confirm that pork damages human health? Who told Muhammad about it, if it wasn't God?

    As for the scientific reasons why we should not eat pork, get enlightened:

    Dr. Hassaan Mustafa, a member of the World Union of Health in Canada, enumerates to us the diseases transmitted by the flesh of swine to man:

    1. The pig cannot get rid of the entire quantity of uric acid that is formed in its body, given that it is the main element of urine. It gets rid of only 2% and 98% remains in its flesh. That simply means that the flesh of swine is saturated with the main element of urine, which the bodies of all living beings on the surface of the earth endeavor to get rid of through the urinary system, due to the poisonous substances it contains. This is why those who eat the flesh of swine have high rates of arthritis, due to the high rate of uric acid in their blood.

    2. The flesh of swine is hard to digest; and it takes four complete hours in order to be digested, given that the amount of digested protein that is absorbed after that process does not exceed 14%. For this reason, the flesh of swine is nutritiously bad and unworthy of the money paid for it, given that the flesh of swine, in many countries, is more expensive than the flesh of other animals whose flesh is edible with no similar problems.

    3. The flesh of swine contains high rates of the growth hormone, which accelerates the proliferation of cancer cells if there are any.

    4. The fat of swine is hard to digest and emulsify in the digestive system. The greatest portion of it is formed of harmful saturated fats. It is absorbed from the intestines into the blood in the form of huge molecules, that might possibly sediment on the walls of blood vessels and block them, causing blood clot, let alone sclerosis and noticeable high rates of cholesterol and saturated fats (triglycerides) in the blood.

    5. The fat of swine sediments in the human body in the same place it comes from in the pig; and this is indeed strange!!! If the fat comes from the belly of the pig, it would settle in the belly of the person who eats it. In this way, the fat of swine helps distort the human body.

    6. Eating the flesh of swine paves the way for many ailments and skin problems and diseases, like pimples, sores, fat sacks, and itching, for it contains a high rate of histamine.

    7. Pigs and their flesh are the source of more than 57 parasitic, germ-caused and virus-caused diseases transmitted to man, of which a mention may be made of Trichinella, from which the flesh of swine could hardly be free. Trichinella parasites remain in the muscles of man, causing severe pains that might probably paralyze their movement. They might also remain in the diaphragm, causing breathlessness and consequently death. Moreover, those parasites might remain for more than thirty years in the muscles after encasing themselves in a calcic sac.

    It is quite interesting to know that an American researcher published on the Archives of Internal Medicine website in 11/6/2001 that the renowned German musician Mozart (d.1791) likely died because of eating uncooked flesh of swine 44 days before the beginning of his 15-day fatal ailment. He was infected by Trichinella, which had not yet been known at that time.

    8. The body of the pig in itself is regarded as a biological factory that has the potential to produce virus-caused diseases and epidemics that might affect man due to the genetic resemblance of pig cells to those of man. The world pandemic called swine flu which we are witnessing now is a result of the metamorphosis and merging of the viruses of bird flu, human flu and swine flu, together inside the body of the pig. They have been metamorphosed into a new deadly virus that is transferred from pigs to people and from man to man. In Canada, a case has been recently recorded where that disease was transmitted from an infected person to a herd of pigs, thus making that pandemic enter a dangerous integrated cycle.

    Educate yourself about pork here: http://www.theherbdoc.com/ConsumerEducation/Reference/PorkFacts.htm

    When I say Islam is a mercy to mankind, I really mean it. Isn't this enough evidence that Muhammad didn't write the Quran.

  • @Jason and Zack

    Freedom of speech does not mean chaos. One should express his views freely but without hurting the feelins of other people, no matter who they are. In your culture freedom of speech is a pretext to spread violence and hate among peoples. That is why we reject it.

  • @Ken

    the behaviour of Islam toward those who do not agree with Islam is criminal.

    You are making generalisations like a four-year-old who sees his father beating his mother and thinks that all fathers beat their wives.

    What happened in Bangladesh represents only those who went out to call for the blogger's death, not even all the Bengalis, let alone all the Muslims.

    When are you going to learn to judge things and not to generalise? It seems to me you will never do. All your knowledge about Islam is based on sterotypes, prejudices, generalisations,...you will never be able to see the truth behind Islam.

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