Morrigan's ritual an final fight, Happy end? - help please

  • Hi you all,

    I hope it's ok to pose questions about the game itself here - but I did'nt find an answer on the net and I'm pretty disappointed about the game as well, so I just wanted to share that and discuss it with you.

    So, I'm almost finished with my first playthrough of origins ever and I was happy that Alistair will be king and my chara (human noble female) his queen. Of course my chara is deeply in love with Alistair ;)

    What I find very disappointing and very unfair for fanGIRLS from the developers is that you either have to make AListair (who you LOVE and who said to you, that he wants you to be only woman in his life to sleep with him) have the ritual with Morrigan or one of you will definetely die - and of course I do not want Alistair to die!

    So... Morrigan..

    Haha, great idea Bioware boys.. I think they didn't really think about the GIRLS when they developed that part of the game. Boys get a last sexy love scene with Morrigan and girls who are in "love" with Alistair get ---- a last romantic sexy love scene with him and Morrigan, who he hates!! To be honest, I hated watching that scene and expected at least, that it would be very short and that Alistair would look more suffering or something..

    And that you maybe then get at least another loveconfession from him or something, but no - the final battle starts right after.

    Dont you find that disappointing and kind of mean?

    Is there any other possibility to have a really happy ending?

    I'm looking forward to your posts and oppinions :)



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  • How interesting :)

    I know when I recently let Alistair perform the Dark Ritual, I spoke to Morrigan afterwards and she talked about it. Not in any specific, "I can make you jelous as I have also lain with Alistair" details, but as I have high approval with her it was more sentimental, if you can say that. She was basically thanking me for letting her sleep with him for this is something that she wanted. Not Alistair, but the babe to come with the essence of an Old God. I did not take her to the final battle though, she asked me why and my Warden got to reply, "Due to your condition" :p

    I do not know exactly how this is a Dark Ritual though, as you do not see or mention anything else, but Morrigan needing to sleep with Alistair due to his freshness to the Taint. As far as I am aware, she performed no spells, charms or drank anything. How does Morrigan know she will become with child straight away? Is she that Fertile? Makes me hope they only acted the once and not several times during this so called "Ritual" :/

    I know its disappointing to realise that if you want Alistair to live with your Warden, then this is probably the main route. With my Mage Female Warden, Aria, I made it so Alistair performed the Dark Ritual, but then stayed as a Grey Warden. What was bizarre was when I mentioned about sleeping with Morrigan and a child involved, he kept going on about being king, and I reloaded several times thinking I made a mistake. I even went back through the Landsmeet. I kept thinking "Hang on! I made Anora Queen, where has this bravado suddenly come from?" Looking on the Dragon Age Wiki, its a bug! He will declare King, no matter what was said at the Landmeet, but after the final battle and in dialouge, the choices you made stay true.

    I do find it hard to let Alistair spend the night with Morrigan. Surely she could have got some other way of getting his little boys without having sex? Turkey basting? Can I say that on here? I just have! Send Alistair off to the corner of the room with drawings of his beloved or something, rather than the actual sex itself. It does just seem mean, as they both hate each other and then the thought comes into my head, "those that hate each other, secretly like one another" and I then think, what if he truely had an amzing night with her? Its when Morrigan says, "you will enjoy this more than you think", that is time to skip the scene!

    I suppose the only way to truely have a happy ending, even though we all love Alistair, please do not hate me by saying this, is to have a romance with one of the other characters, then when Morrigan proposes the Ritual, you do not need to worry about your feelings as much. Though then, Morrigan will have been his first (if you had not already slept together and then decided to end it). Even if I am not in a romance with Alistair, he is my Warden's best friend, so I cannot bring myself to have him scarifice or go mad with drink.

    Bioware really did go out with all the endings. Who can end up with who, Where people go and what they do afterwards. Its truely amazing, and I spend hours thinking, talking and playing Dragon Age. I am a woman obesessed!

  • Thanks for your interesting answer, its good to hear that I am not crazy or anything spending so much energy on feelings for polygone-characters :D

    I really thought too that she could have got his sperm in another way - and as you said, the sentence that he might enjoy it more than he thinks really got me mad...

    I guess this time I will let him do the ritual just to save his life (but my chara will be deeply hurt and will also be afraid that he might have liked it too much - also he is now not "pure" anymore because Morrigan is evil in a way),

    but next time I will as you said play another character who falls in love with Zevran as you dont have any problems then.

    Its just really mean because I turned down Leliana and Zevran's really sweet offers just because Iwanted to stay true to beloved Alistair (whom I took his virginity ^^) - and then all they give you before the final fight is that scene clearly designed and made to please MALE players.

    I mean, why build up all this nice romancy stuff just to stab in our hearts the knife of jealousy?

    And also: Morrigan maybe will be the only one to have a child with him, as you are a Grey Warden and the chances of fertility are pretty low because of that... Isnt that somehow a big punch in the face of fangirls?

    This really spoils the romantic happy end for me I had hoped for during the more than 60 hours playing that game :(

    I know, its just a game and dont get me wrong here (I can make a difference between game and reality ;), but it is a ROLE play and the developers intended to influence our feelings as well.

    They did a great job with all the different characters and I really thought that they finally also cared for the girls with giving us Alistair (knight in shining armour, prince etc) - why did they suddenly not think of our feelings in the end?

    Anyway, I guess you're right that there is no other way. Of course you could have Loghrain as a grey warden and let him die in the end, but Alistair would then leave you forever.

    It's all a bummer and I almost put away the game before ever finishing it :(

  • Oh and just to add:

    What also got me mad was the fact that you yourself had to convince him of sleeping with her. And you only have pretty cool dialogue options to choose from, nothing like "Hey just do it for me and you, so we can be alive togethe. Just close your eyes and think about me" or something.

    And the romancy music (the same you hear when kissing or loving him the first time) :-/

  • I have a feeling, as mean as it sounds, this was the effet Bioware were going for, because in the Dragon Age Universe, nothing can ever be so simple when they presented the amaing Alistair with his seemingly romantic qualities and almost perfect nature, right? I actually think its very clever. Look how all us FanGirls have responded over a pixelated character. I get very sad and kinda angry when Alistair tries to dump my Warden when he is King. All those lovely sentiments about being in Love with me and how I will always be his and in his heart, and then he ruins it by saying, "oh, by the way, now I am king you do not have the requirements I need, so bye", unless you are a Female Cousland with high Coersion or pick your lines very carefully. In reverse I think this is kind of a great trait, as it means Alistair is not a Mary-Sue in the game world! Fictional, a Mary-Sue, is perfect, can do everything right, and is loved by everyone and gets what she wants. I love how Bioware have steered away from this and created such complex and interesting characters. Even Wynne has her flaws!

    So yes, we may not be able to get quite the happiest ending we ever want with Alistair, but would you really rather him die when Morrigan is essentially given us a way out? Even if it is for her own personnal gain and this may turn against us in the Future? Everyone loves a bit of selfishness! "Yea, but, the Archdemon needs to be destroyed, but then, I could essientially get 'everything' without too much consequence, its just an Old God spirited Child she wants, right?" :p

    I agree about the whole child issue, with Grey Wardens pratically being infertile but there is a way around that... FANFICTION! Have you read any yet? A lot of them are brilliant and it is amazing how people can write things so that certain stories work. There is a discussion on the board about fanfictions so check them out and also go to www.fanfiction.net.

    When visiting this site, you can not be classed as 'mad' :p Everyone else is the same! None of my friends in 'real-life' you can say, understand my obsession more than these guys and girls on here. Even my Boyfriend knows not to disturb me when I am 'Alistair Whoring' :p

  • I have to agree I did not like that fact that the only way to survive and be with Alistair was to convince him to sleep with Morgan. :( I was very upset. At first I was going to try to turn Logan into a Grey Wardon seeing as I didn't like my first ending as a Dalish Elf I replayed the game but didn't like the fact that he had to sleep with her. :(

    On second note I was very happy that in the second game you could add your profile from the first one and that you got to see Alistair at least once. :)

  • Yeah you're right, its nice that you can see him. Also in Awakening - though I was disappointed that he gave my warden only a kiss on the cheek and then disappeared -.-

    I also found the epilogue from Origins pretty lame, no kissing or a marrigage or anything, just "Yeah you're the hero now, go and see your followers" and then only text which told me the off-screen facts. The add ons dont give so much either...

    Btw I played the add on witchhunt and did not kill Morrigan, it is not really her fault.. but I promised her to hunt the demon kid down.

  • I was a big softie with her in Witch Hunt :D The DLC made no sense though, it only left with more questions and no answers. I do not think killing Morrigan will effect the game anyways, just from the fact she is a really powerful mage and if she did have the child, I would assume the child would know what to do in the situation where mother was killed, having the essence of an Old God an all. I have watched the Youtube clips, and it is quite sad. I believe the DLC takes place 2 years after Origins so she would have had more than enough time to read Flemeth's Tome and fully understand the powers within, along with teaching the child, if it even is a child as we perceive it. It could be a 'child' but with a mind like wise/crooked adult.

  • You're right, I also dont think killing her does do anything. She just falls into the mirror, so you dont know how bad she is hurt at all.

    SHe says the child is in a save place and it is a few years after killing the archdemon - so the child is born and alive.. I really wish (as the story does not continue in DA2) that it would have been possible to see or fight the child.

    I quit playing the addons at all, as they all are just annoying sidequests (in my oppinion, dont feel threatened anyone - but you cant even talk to your squadmates in Awakening!).

    Instead, I restarted the game as an female elf and this time I'll go for Zevran, though its really, really hard not to fall for Alistair again. His german voice is just to cute :D and when he gives you the rose and everything... but no, I dont want to go through the jealousy thing again, and Zevran is also quite sweet when he opens up to you :)

    Btw I noticed that Morrigan and Alistair sound kind of flirty when they argue all the time (at least in german - but still..). There's this saying in german: Who loves each other teases each other...

  • WAAAAHH...@Whitney! several times? you run a dagger straight into my heart by mentioning this. :´(

    btw: how did you manage to romance another character? O.O

    I was always too weak to resist Alistair`s offers ;)

    I`ve had nightmares because of that damn ritual! I hate it from the bottom of my heart. skip, skip, skip! there is no other way for me to stand it. or self sacrifice as an option.

    @Stephanie, ist dir klar, dass wir hier die einzigen deutschen weit und breit sind? :D

  • Haha I could not resist and killed Morrigan the fist time in the add on - but then reloaded and let her go as I'm just to sad when she calls me a friend etc.

    About the ritual: Yes, I needed to skip it the second time. The first time I was just too stunned and watched it with disgust as I was too curious how Alistair would react - then I was just so angry when I saw that he kind of liked it.

    It gave me nightmares too - Well, I could not sleep as it was nagging me all the time and my boyfriend probably thinks I'm crazy or cheating him or so as I was mumbling angrily for myself all the time and also told him about that bitch from that game :D

    But clearly, self sacrifice is no option for me. Not at all. I hoped for more after-battle-love with Alistair, but I was really disappointed with the ending of DAO.

    But right, it's almost impossible not to romance Alistair - mostly because he is virgin and would have to sleep with Morrigan as his first if you dont. But I'm still thinking about taking Loghain with me this time, so he could die.. But I guess I cant stand it when AListair leaves, so I just let them do the ritual and skip skip skip ;)

    @Ines: Is ja witzig, freut mich trotzdem voll dass noch jemand hier ist, mit dem ich vll auch mal auf Deutsch über zB Dragon Age schreiben und diskutieren kann :) Würde mich freuen, muss ja net sooft sein ;)

  • @Stephanie, mit dem größten vergnügen ♥

    mein englisch ist etwas holperig und ich kann mich da nicht ganz so gut ausdrücken, wie in deutsch. aber das halten wir besser unter uns . hier wäre es unhöflich den anderen gegenüber. und an meiner pinnwand ist sowieso schon der halbe DA fanclub vertreten, also können wir auch genauso gut da weiterdiskutieren. :D

    that was off topic, sorry ;)

  • What do you think about Morrigan and Alistair being flirty? Does anyone agree?

  • NO!!!! Miss Cousland would be beside herself with rage. she`s soooo jealous.

    serioulsy? no, I don`t think so. but it might be that I mostly tend to shut my eyes to unpleasant realities. ;) it gives me comfort to imagine they hate each other with passion.

    sigh....

  • Well then I let myself comfort, too. I guess it's just Miss Couslands jealous mind who plays her tricks ;)

  • I only managed to romance another character out of curiosity and the fact that it was an achievement XD Most of my Warden's are indeed with Alistair, he sure does get around :p

    Can you make him King with Anora and still have Loghain in your party? I think you have to have hardened Alistair and make sure he does not kill Loghain himself otherwise Anora will say she will not marry the man who killed her father.

  • Dont you like Zevran, too? I'm trying to romance him now with my female elf as Alistair would leave her anyway when he becomes king (or she would be his side-affair, which is not what I want) - and I really like Zevran as well.

    He's an interesting and sometimes even deeper character than Alistair.

    I mean, sure, Alistair still is my favorite and I love him more just because he can be so sweet... But I sometimes think that he isnt that sweet at all if he can for example leave you just like that when he becomes king or that you can harden him that easily and then he suddenly wants to have foursomes etc..

    It would be great if you could do that (make Alistair king and Loghain a grey warden), I really dont know. If you can find out, please tell me :)

    But then he would still be married to another woman ;)

  • I totally agree about Alistair not being as sweet as first thought, as sometimes it does get me down when playing the game, you do all that hard work to make everything perfect and he decides otherwise. Its like his secret twin enters the room at the end of the Landsmeet, and in front of everyone too!

    I do like Zevren :) I have a Male Dalish Elf Romancing him in one of the many playthroughs!

    I have a saved game just before the Landsmeet with my Female Dalish Elf, and I know I hardened Alistair in that one and I believe I tried to marry Anora off to him, so I will see if it definately works! I know with the final ending I got, I had Alistair battle Loghain and he chopped of his head, as the Queen of Hearts would yell and Anora decided she could not Marry the man who killed her father. I will try the variations of beheading Loghain for his crimes and then seeing if Alistair will stay with Anora, (hardened) whilst Loghain is a Grey Warden.

  • waaaaahwaaaaah :´´´(

    @Whitney, why do you always make me cry? my poor Alibear married to this bl***y b***tch? for the rest of his life? WHY?

    my favourite epilogue is the "unhardened (there is only one reason for me to harden him ;)-Alistair/femCousland- stay-Grey Wardens-and-live happily-together-after-the-blight-ending". sadly also only possible with that damned ritual :( skip, skip, skip!

    only one time I had Alistair and Zevran at +100 love in the end and felt like Super Woman :DDD

  • @Ines, I am not trying to make anyone cry... I am trying to find solutions :D

  • I didn't really like doing it myself, the whole make Alistair sleep with Morrigan. I adore Alistair, so it was a bit hard to take. But I reasoned that my Warden was terrified/did not want to die and or lose Alistair. Everytime I made a choice in the game, I tried to imagine why my Warden (A Fem!Cousland, obviously), would make the choices she did. And that was the reason I came up with, cliche as it is, lol.

    And besides, I didn't want Anora to have him. <_< AKA, I despise Anora.

  • And I would add that without those plot twists like that ritual, that game would not have been that interesting to play. There is nothing in the ritual really appealing to any men, it is just a workaround to avoid the death of any of the Wardens. Morrigan did it as a friend. Maybe not as selfish as anyone would think, we have to keep in mind she is a witch of the wild, and so her acting like such does not involve selfishness, but she is always acting out of necessity, for survival purposes, and for those who have played the Witch Hunt add-on, for something greater then herself. The only problem is that she would want everyone to think likewise.

    But remember that you are first a Grey Warden, who would not put his or her feelings first, but always choose his/her actions according to what's best for everyone. Hey, that's what Grey Wardens do!

  • And it is just a game after all!

  • I know its just a game :P

    You're all right, as a Grey Warden she would first think of successfully defeating the blight and all evil - but how should having a demon baby in this world be good for that? The "real" Warden Solution would be to kill herself (and not AListair/ the king) - but I'm too selfish to do that :D

    Btw, can you make Anora queen alone and not marry her to Alistair? I'm playing a female elf right now and NOT romancing Alistair (but Zevran), but I dont want Anora to get Alistair either :D

    I did not harden him either btw. (Just cant do it - I dont like his selfish, evil twin :D

  • @ Steph

    Yeah, you can make Anora Queen and keep Alistair in the Warden's. They don't HAVE to marry. But Anora will want Alistair to swear fealty and give up his claim to the throne for himself and any children he may, effectively ending the Theirin line. But yeah, it's possible.

  • Anora do not deserve to rule at all, so the only logical choice is to kill loghain (what a relief!), get Alistair on the throne, and if you are a fem|noble then you could rule with him.

    The child will not be born with demonic spirit, but with an Old God spirit. The Archdemon was that same God tainted with Darkspawn blood. Only the untainted essence of the old god has remained and transfered to the unborn child. There is still a lot of the Ferelden history to be written, and I suspect that we will hear from that child (maybe as an adult) again. For what is worth, he is also heir of the throne. Can't imagine how that will devellop in the story. Lots of plot twists in the future for Dragon Age. There is still a lot to be answered, and Morrigan and her child is one of those things that need to be addressed. You can bet that the next ruler in Ferelden could be that Old God in the form of Morrigan's son. Just like his father (Alistair), he would be another bastard child to rule Ferelden, but with the power of a god. I can bet that he will be more of a Satan's son, then a true beneficient god. We'll see...

  • Thanks Kate, then I will do it this time and make two savegames, one romancing Zev and one Alistair.

    I think that one reason that so many girls prefer Alistair is also that he has much more lines concerning dialogue - and you can kiss him all the time while Zevran doesnt say so much at all... still, he's pretty adorable as well :)

    Oh @ Mario.. still it is a lot of power in the hands of a possibly very powerful and potentially evil witch - I still dont trust Morrigan at all.

  • Never trust her! She will use that power assurelly. It seems to be a twisted version of Flemeth own possessing capabilities. That should give us a game in which the Archdemon from Origin would seem a pale imitation of what's to come

  • :) Well that sounds kinda good, doesn't it?! The arch demon in DA:O was somehow a wet sock.. I imagined him bigger and more epic - he was only hard to defeat because he had so much more energy than you and it took quite some time. But besides that he was just a bit boring, just like "hey, here is your final enemy, defeat him."

    Oh how I wish to have a DA3 very soon, but I've read that they've just only begun working on it - somehow I want it soon and somehow I want that they take themselves 5 years time again to make another game as big and great as DA:O!